Talk:There is a law of conservation of information
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The following was added by an anon user, unformated and under the wrong heading. Can anybody copyedit it and add it back in the correct section (or ambitious editors could rewrite this into a full faq, as I think one of the creationist claims pagaes has been). Joe D (t) 13:17, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Conventional Theory of Information considers information is no conservation. But it is concealed an axiom about “information conservation�? that notable equation ∑Pi=1，（1）in Thermodynamics and Statistical Physics. Actually, 1 equation root in ∑ni=N or Ω=∑ωi（2），Ωi=∑ωij, Ω=∑Ωi=∑∑ωij, as well as “relation of imperishability of information or whole state�? (Deng Yu, et al, Journal of Math. Medicine, Chinese, 88-89, 13(2000)). We can deduce entropy conservation: klgΩ=∑klgωi，Si=klgωi，S=∑Si （3）, and information conservation: I=∑Ii=-∑PilgPi. When information was copied M times, it is conservation, MI= M∑Ii=- M∑PilgPi. Physical, Chemical, biological, Social, Signal or language information are conservation. So here have relation of information-energy: E=PE+qE,(1=P+q，PE is disorderly energy-heat; qE is orderly energy-work), E=P∑niεi+q∑niεi; Relation of information-mass: M=P'M+q'M. Key in Law of Conservation of Information is included whole of tow mutuality in usefulness and inutility, meaning and insignificant, keep-dissolve information. Elapse allegedly “information no conservation�? was neglected information or state of no use, insignificance, clear away---Ino (http://www.oridream.com/). So relation of Information Conservation is expressed other I=∑Iuse+∑Ino,and N=∑nusei+∑nnoi. Practical value, increase orderly energy qE, orderly degree q→1; disorderly degree P→0 (P+q=1), the all energy can do usefulness work, the efficiency of heat engine η= q/（P+ q）=1, η→1(=100%). Old efficiency of engine Max is only 1/3 (<1/3), engine of car only have 1/4 (<25%). Because they are microscopic disorder, they have only X, Y, Z (X=Y=Z=1/3) three directions motion, do work is only one direction, example X, so this efficiency is 1/3, η= X/（X+Y+Z）=1/3. When microscopical order, the motion of three directions is combounded to one direction 3X, example Y=Z=0, η= q/（P+ q）=1=100%,η= 3X/3X=3X/(3X+Y+Z)=1.
- There are some real meaningful formulas in there, but the text was probably automatically translated from Chinese to English-like gibberish, using babelfish, so it's difficult to make any sense of it. The first part is slightly meaningful:
- Conventional Theory of Information considers information is not conserved. But there is an axiom about “information conservation�? concealed in that notable equation
- ∑Pi=1，（1)
- in Thermodynamics and Statistical Physics. Actually, 1 equation roots in
- ∑ni=N or Ω=∑ωi（2），Ωi=∑ωij, Ω=∑Ωi=∑∑ωij,
- but the rest doesn't make sense to me. The content may well have been gibberish in the first place. I suspect it's an attempt to show that there is a law of conservation of information but I may be wrong. --tk 14:10, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I found this in the Source paragraph, where it does not belong:
公�?Expressions (law of conservation of information):
N=∑ni
equation root in ∑ni=N or
Ω=∑ωi（2），
Ωi=∑ωij,
Ω=∑Ωi=∑∑ωij,
as well as “relation of imperishability of information or whole state�? (Deng Yu, et al, Journal of Math. Medicine, Chinese, 88-89, 13(2000)). We can deduce entropy conservation:
klgΩ=∑klgωi，Si=klgωi，S=∑Si （3）,
and signal (information) conservation:
I=∑Ii=-∑PilgPi.
When information was copied M times, it is conservation,
MI= M∑Ii=- M∑PilgPi.
Physical, Chemical, biological, Social, Signal or language information are conservation. So here have relation of information-energy:
E=PE+qE,(1=P+q，
PE is disorderly energy-heat; qE is orderly energy-work),
E=P∑niεi+q∑niεi;
Relation of information-mass:
M=P'M+q'M.
Key in Law of Conservation of Information is included whole of tow mutuality in usefulness and inutility, meaning and insignificant, keep-dissolve information. Elapse allegedly “information no conservation�? was neglected information or state of no use, insignificance, clear away---Ino (http://www.oridream.com/). So relation of Information Conservation is expressed other
I=∑Iuse+∑Ino,
and
N=∑nusei+∑nnoi.
Practical value, increase orderly energy qE, orderly degree q→1; disorderly degree P→0 (P+q=1), the all energy can do usefulness work, the efficiency of heat engine
η= q/（P+ q）=1, η→1(=100%).
Old efficiency of engine Max is only 1/3 (<1/3), engine of car only have 1/4 (<25%). Because they are microscopic disorder, they have only X, Y, Z (X=Y=Z=1/3) three directions motion, do work is only one direction, example X, so this efficiency is 1/3,
η= X/（X+Y+Z）=1/3.
When microscopical order, the motion of three directions is combounded to one direction 3X, example Y=Z=0,
η= q/（P+ q）=1=100%,η= 3X/3X=3X/(3X+Y+Z)=1.
This was in the Responses paragraph, where it may or may not belong:
1 Dembski defines is literature non-math, non-physics, if you want to look scientific "law of conservation of information", you can go DENG Yu's www.oridream.com. Ω=∑ωi,klgΩ=∑klgωi，Si=klgωi，S=∑Si ;
2 DENG Yu's math. law of conservation of information is theory �?�论�?明 theoretical argumentation, prove, also 应用�?�?�动机领域apply in engine field, engine of non-heat,
Practical value, increase orderly energy qE, orderly degree q→1; disorderly degree P→0 (P+q=1), the all energy can do usefulness work, the efficiency of heat engine η= q/（P+ q）=1, η→1(=100%). Old efficiency of engine Max is only 1/3 (<1/3), engine of car only have 1/4 (<25%). Because they are microscopic disorder, they have only X, Y, Z (X=Y=Z=1/3) three directions motion, do work is only one direction, example X, so this efficiency is 1/3, η= X/（X+Y+Z）=1/3. When microscopical order, the motion of three directions is combounded to one direction 3X, example Y=Z=0, η= q/（P+ q）=1=100%,η= 3X/3X=3X/(3X+Y+Z)=1.
Please, if you try to say something, learn English. Nobody understands what you want to do. --172.178.190.8 18:47, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
