Seagraves' Mistake Part 2
From EvoWiki
It's no brainer of how the young earthers would invent stories like what is mentioned above to win people to their sides. Saying that it's all true, yet turned around and invent stories that has no merit, no evidence, no truth to them. In A Better Explanation section, just like before, Seagraves claims that the Bible give out a much better explanation on dinosaurs better than the evolutionists. All hubris. As mentioned before, I begged to differ. Everything YECs teach is nothing but inventive stories, fabrications, emotional pleadings, slander, elaborate hoaxes, and Bible interpretations twisted about to fit the views of the young earther.
One of the inventive stories is shown right here in the section where Seagraves claims in his own words, “He (dinosaur) lived before the flood, roamed the earth, was the king of the creatures of pride, created by God to display His power to mankind, he died out because of the great flood and the drastic changes after the flood.” while no valid evidence of such a scenario has ever been found.
Another story Seagraves has invented is the vapor canopy fallacy, which says, in one part, that when the flood destroyed the earth, it destroyed the canopy as well. Thus, causing the animals and people to live much shorter lives -- if they miraculously survive being severely scalded to death that is. Seagraves also claims that trace minerals that once covered the soil were all washed to sea during the Flood. Hence this is why, according to Seagraves, kelp in the sea has grown at a “fantastic rate” and that seawater over the years, in Seagrave's own words, “..... must be very rich in elements essential to life.” This stupid claim is entirely made up. If trace minerals did get washed out to sea in the Flood, then the land would be completely bear of plant life and everything else that depend on it, while the sea would be crawling with all sorts of marine life! In reality, the flood would have destroyed all of plant life (including marine plant life) while completely destroying all mineral content in the soil and everything else along with it if Noah's flood did occurred years ago. Seagraves has got to be out of his mind to purpose such a stupid fallacy.
In A Drastic Change section, Seagraves talks about what life was like after the Flood when the conditions have all gone downhill since then and animals had to compete with each other for food. I know for certain that this implies that God has set the animals up for the fall. If God wanted the animals alive and yet most, including the dinosaur, died off due to post-flood conditions, then what's the point of rescuing them from the Flood anyway? According to Seagraves, after the Flood, God gave mankind permission to eat meat, not just vegetation. YECs believe that man and animals ate only plants before the flood, but then afterwards man was given permission to eat meat as well. Even animals began preying upon each other as well They may have to because they will all have no choice. The great flood would have destroyed all plant life on land and under the sea. With no plants around, animals starve, and when animals starve, they die and get eaten by other animals that are also starving as well. Noah and his family will have to eat only meat because all of the soil would have been washed away so they can't plant crops no matter how hard they tried, until all of the meat is gone and the whole family would starve to death. No doubt the worldwide flood has major problems to it. Note Seagraves' made up story about vultures and buzzards eating up dinosaur eggs when laid in a “shallow hole” like iguanas do.
In A Mighty Hunter section, Seagraves gets with more made up stories about man, being a “mighty hunter”, coexisting with dinosaurs by mentioning again false evidences of dinosaurs coexisting with man YECs like Seagraves themselves gave out, including the Piltdown cave art in Rhodesia as well as the Piltdown prints in Glen Rose, Texas as well as in rain forests, where reports of alleged dinosaurs being sighted that will make elephants look very tiny despite finding no traces of bones, eggs, nests, and fully intact dinosaur bodies in that area. Also in the section, Seagraves gave out alleged claims of people spotting and killing off a large snake that's said to be 150 feet long as well as a news report for a possible tabloid made about an alleged sighting of a long neck marine reptile measuring about 150 feet long. Both have no valid evidence turned up to support both of these claims. Possibly they are just 2 hoaxes made up as a publicity stunt.
More stupidity coming from Seagaves in the Extinction section who made a up idiotic, laughable, made up nonsense about when one goes to a park in San Diego, California, that person will hear a tour guide at the San Diego Wild Animal park talking to the people about insects and man. Insects, so says the made up tour guide of Seagraves, are increasing at an alarming rate and nothing could stop their rise. They would compete with man for survival and, in the evolutionary scale, would eventually take the place of humans and inherit the earth after the humans die off. Question: Where does Seagraves get all of this nonsense from other than his head? Only from his head perhaps? Likely so. For no tour guide will ever say such a thing to his/her group they're taking on a tour of the zoo.
In A Very Great Flood section, Seagraves tells about the great global flood and how it covered even the highest of mountains in the world. As mentioned before, it is not without any major problems to this fallacy. Seagraves then continues with Not Just a Rainstorm section where Seagraves invokes the eruption of volcanoes to explain what the fountains of the deep actually meant in Genesis 7:11-12. Problem is, there's no volcanoes found anywhere in the Middle East nor are they found in the Bible and volcanoes are not always necessary to create powerful Tsunami waves since big earthquakes will do the exact same thing.
The next section is The Fossil Record where Seagraves explains in his own way how a fossil is formed. However, he is so clueless of what he's saying about it. He claims that fossils are formed at a very rapid pace. Yes, but he also ignores the fact that fossils can also be formed at a very slow pace as well. Seagraves thinks that what you need according to him to form fossils is “the proper amount of lime, sand or other sediment, the proper amount of pressure, some type of catastrophic event, and suitable cementing and fossilizing chemicals in the water.” No, that is not how a fossil is formed. This is how a fossil is formed in reality. Seagraves also claims that no new fossil is formed today which is a blatant lie. This page here debunks Seagraves' fossil falsehood.
He then makes up a false example of how the 'evolutionist', who accepts uniformitarianism (something no scientists today in reality believes or accepts anymore. The embraced actualism instead.), “builds” up a “concept” that is known as the geologic column with life in simpler forms at the bottom and advanced forms at the top - all formed by local floods, local cataclysms all over the earth starting from the Cambrian Era 500 million years ago to today.
The geologic column don't work that way. Nor is the fossil record like that at all. The geologic column actually starts with the Pre-Cambrian Era and builds up all the way to the Holocene Epoch of today. This, what Seagraves is displaying, is pure example of shear ignorance of how evolution and natural selection works and what the fossil record is really telling us.
Evolution is not at all about simpler form evolving into complex forms. It's all about life evolving and branching out from a common ancestor. It's about how organism, no matter how simple and complex, changing over time, descending with modification, and adapting to the ever changing environments that surrounds them. It's about changing occurring through Natural Selection. Offspring being modified versions of their parents. It's about great diversity in species, modification, adaptation, and survival. It is both fact and theory. All of God's way of modifying and enhancing His Creation no matter how simple or complex they are.
No doubt, Seagraves doesn't know what he is saying about the fossil record along with the geologic column. He just uses his imagination and pretends that the imaginary geologist of Seagraves made up the geologic column by building up one strata after another by gathering one rock layer each from various locations throughout the world and builds it up from there. No geologist ever done such a thing. Seagraves, like all YECs, claims that the geologic column along with the time period ages does not exist - a blatant lie in the third degree! The geologic column does exist, including this one in North Dakota.
The next section is entitled The Problem with Order, where Seagraves brings on more falsehoods and stupidity about the Lewis Overthrust - something Talkorigins will explain what it is and debunk Seagrave's idiotic claims about it.
Now we get to A New Set of Questions section where Seagraves gives out the fallacy that says the fossils were sorted in each of their own layers by the floodwaters as it was rising up to above the mountaintops. The smaller ones are buried in their own layers at the bottom, the larger ones are buried in their own layers at the top, with mankind buried at the last layer on the top. This kind of fallacy is known as Ecological Zoning, one of the fallacies YECs made up to explain why are the fossils arranged they way they are. Never is this fallacy without any problems and flaws associated with it.
The next section is The Answer, where Seagraves tells the reader that the fossil record is the result of the Great Flood, which is a blatant lie. He also claims that “we” (Seagraves and his cronies) have “their” explanation in the hydrologic sorting of ecological niches, which is debunked in the previous link above. Those who advocate the zoning fallacies all failed to explain how do they explain the plants; the kinds of plants that are extinct that are found exclusively in certain layers and none elsewhere; plants that don't runaway when the floodwaters rise. Plus, a violent flood like Noah's flood would never arranged the fossil record like what we see in the fossil record. Instead, it would jumbled up all the fossils into a huge mix bag; even destroy them all completely.
Now Seagraves gets to the section called But What About Noah?, where he talks about Noah stepping out of the ark into a much different world than what it once was before the Flood. Seagraves claims that the men of today are no different than the men of Noah's day when they refuse to believe that the Flood would come. Despite Seagraves' claims, the Flood model offers no better explanation than anything else. In some cases, fossils were formed by various cataclysms such as sandstorms, localized flooding, volcanic eruptions, and severe droughts. But there are times when fossils formed in much quieter conditions such as when an Ichthyosaur dies of old age and sank to the bottom of the sea. Untouched by predators, as the skin and flesh rots away revealing its bones and teeth, the body would gradually be covered up with sediment and be buried there for millions of years while being filled up with sediment that will change all of the bones, teeth, and other hard parts of the body to stone.
Then Seagraves mentions about the Occam's razor claiming that it says a much better more simpler explanation could be correct. If that's the case according to the Skeptics Dictionary's definition of that term, the Occam razor would most certainly be nothing more than a worthless blunt razor. However, this is not what the Occam razor is all about. Click here to see another definition of Occam's Razor from Wikipedia.
Once again he reminds the reader of the fallacies of no new fossils formed and the fossil record being the result of Noah's flood. Both are debunked as mentioned before. Seagraves claims, “We should expect the fossil record and the Biblical record to agree.” Sorry, the Biblical record according to the YECs does not agree with the fossil record.
Then in A Little More Evidence section, Seagraves gave out 2 examples of fossils being so-called rapidly buried in a flood. One is the discovery of fish fossils with soft parts inside being found and tree fossils being found cut through many several layers of strata in Nova Scotia. Much of what Seagraves is showing is entirely made up, including the story about scientists (young earthers posing as scientists perhaps) doing experiments on some dead fish by putting them in cages and buried them in mud to experiment on how did the soft parts get preserved. As far as I know, no real scientist has ever did such an experiment like that.
What we really see is not the actual soft part of the animal being preserved, but an imprint version of the soft parts, including the scales, being made after the original material have decayed away, leaving behind an imprint in the mud that changed into rock over a period of millions of years.
The next so-called evidence for rapid burial is the tree fossils that were cut through many layers known as the polystrate trees. These are fallacies that young earthers uses as evidence for Noah's Flood and rapid burial. Just like all of the other claims, this YE claim is not without its share of flaws. Here is this page to explain the truth behind the polystrate trees.
The next 2 segments, Of Coal and Oil, and But When? displays of how ignorant Seagraves is to the fact that coal and oil does take millions of years to form. How it takes millions of years to form is explained here.
Just like all YECs, Seagraves would often invoked the flood myths told for centuries around the world to justified the global flood myth just as they invoked the dragon legends told worldwide over centuries to justified the falsehood of dragons being dinosaurs people saw, fought, and killed. The Traditionally segment gives out claims of flood stories being told by Greeks, Romans, and Native Americans and many other races throughout the world over the years, while ignoring the fact that Egyptian Mythology is among the few countries out there that's completely void of Flood myths even though the country of Egypt is located along the Nile River. Much of the Flood stories is based on localized flooding incidents that are a common occurrence in where the people lived. Others are spread about by missionaries, who incorporated the biblical stories of the Flood into traditional native stories told time again in certain areas of the world. To give you the lowdown on what I mean, click here.
Another flood fallacy is the many claims of people sighting Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat as claimed in the A Mountain in Turkey segment, where Seagraves made up many unlikely accounts of people sighting Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat while ignoring the verse in Genesis 8:4 where it says that the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat, not on one mountain. Much of the stories offered has been discredited; much have proved to be a hoax made up as a publicity stunt; even one of those stories has been known to contradict each other, including stories about the ark being sighted easily to the ark being extremely hard to find.
Then, Seagraves tries to use the human population fallacy to prove that the earth is thousands of years ago while asking the question: Where have all the People gone? To help debunk this stupidity of an explanation Seagraves gives out in the segment, click here.
Seagraves gives out more fallacy about how did the animals behave inside the ark during the flood in the Lest We Forget segment, where he says God remembered Noah and all those inside the ark as told in Genesis 8:1. But that doesn't ease the burden of taking care of all those 30,000 animals and 850,000 pairs of insects stored inside the ark. To take care of all of those animals, you have to have much more than eight people to take care of them. Plus, adequate shelters, food, places to give them exercise, stimulations, ventilation, and other forms of proper care. However, Seagraves here uses his imagination and pretends that God must have put all of the animals on suspended animation or caused to hibernate and sleep throughout the year-long trip. That way, he won't have to deal with the problem of how did Noah and his family care for all those countless thousands of animals on the ark without dealing with major problems involving animal care concerning disease, malnutrition, feces, and food spoilage.
Note how Seagraves claims at the bottom of the paragraph says that the animals are not to breed in the ark since God has slowed down their life processes throughout the voyage. Like I said, nowhere does the Bible say anything about it. This is all made up by YECs like Seagraves so that they won't have to deal with the problems associated with the caring of animals inside the ark.
Then Seagraves, ever warped and narrow-minded, tells his own version of the story of Noah's and the Flood in the Back To Noah, the last segment found in his book and his site. Note in the segment, Seagraves tell of a make-believe story about a scientist coming from a university in the past, who disbelieves in the warning of the coming Flood Noah preached about because he believes in uniformitarianism, something no scientists believes in anymore nowadays just like I mentioned before and studies meteorology. This fictional person convinces the people to not give in to Noah since there was no rain falling from the sky; instead there will always be just mist coming from the ground to water the land (Mist is a form of rain. This way, YECs would contradict themselves when they claimed that no rain falling on earth before the Flood yet turned around and say that mist which is a form of rain came from the ground and water the earth.). Seagraves even makes-believes about the religious leaders who also refuses to listen to Noah while there are better things going on than wasting time building a boat on dry land. But, then according to Seagraves, the people saw all those fictional bugs and animals going up into the ark and then the rains came and all of the pretend 3 million people drowned while the ark floated away with the living cargo inside.
Despite what Seagraves claims in the end of his book, using Noah's ark as a pictured comparison to Jesus Christ will do us no good concerning about the conditions of the ark when it comes to worries over diseases, adequate maintenance, ventilation, food, exercise, proper places to dispose of animal feces, etc. When you enter into the ark or any wooden ship that has no adequate fixes or a proper physicality or maintenance, you may wound up being susceptible to diseases, malnutrition and other pitfalls of being inside a wooden ship. Just ask the African Americans whose ancestors were forced be crowded into wooden ships that are setting sail on a direct coarse to slavery in America.
Jesus came to earth to bring life to us all. And he certainly did brought life to us all and paved the way for us to go to Heaven so we can be with Him forever. The YECism version of the ark, on the other hand, only brought death. Especially to all those extinct animals that have survived the flood only to die off a short while later after they got off the boat. Thus, it is entirely evident that comparing the 2 well known Christian symbols with each other concerning about salvation is highly useless and unaccounted for.
Conclusion,
Like all YECs as mentioned before, Seagraves only follows a strict literal Bible interpretation, convinced that what is said in the Bible is true despite the contrary. The very last page of this idiot site, For Further Study, is where Seagraves presents 3 more online versions of his idiocies he dredged up from his head based on that strict, literal, Bible reading, online books that tells of the alleged claims of Noah's ark sightings, Denial of the existence of UFOs, and Seagraves' own version of the story of Jonah and the Whale. With all of those idiocies abound, including what is shown on the main page of the parentcompany.com site, one must wonder, how can Seagraves be consider a “scientist” while he does not have a single clue to what he's talking about, especially when it concerned dinosaurs. Like all YE literature, Seagrave's book about his own great dinosaur mistake, is entirely all made up, with no speck of truth inside of it, just to win gullible people into the YE group for only their own personal gain, including Seagraves'.
